It should just work
Here is a phone conversation that makes me wonder when Linux distributions are gonna be desktop-ready.
[Background - I have installed both Linux and Windows on the computer in my Dad's medical laboratory (he's a doctor) in order to help him try out a software I had written for him.] Dad: Windows is not starting. Patients are waiting for reports! Hospitals are asking for reports. Me: What does the computer show? Dad: It just says GRUB minimal editing Me: Does it show
grub>? Dad: Yes (I quickly scurry to yahoo search to look for the GRUB manual and I recollect that GRUB boots Windows using chain-loading) Me: Dad, please run these commands:rootnoverify (hd0,0) now press enter makeactive now press enter chainloader +1 now press enter boot now press enter
Dad: Windows started! Me: Thank god.
I shudder to think what would have happened if I wasn’t able to find a solution immediately. Getting medical reports for patients is critical. I’m not worried that GRUB failed (since I was able to solve the problem this time), all software fail at one point or another but I hope that this hasn’t put off my Dad in still using Linux.
Though, I wonder why GRUB screwed up like that.
March 28th, 2005 at 1:30 pm
Linux has a lot more severe hurdles to overcome before it becomes Desktop ready than the boot system problem your dad faced. However, it does not come anywhere in the Linux desktop radar as one of the potent threats when compared to actual issues such as a unified desktop instead of the current Gnome,KDE, xfce melee, much faster bootup times (asynchronous events instead of the current linear bootup) and most importantly, Linux advocacy on desktop issues.
There is anyway a simpler solution for your dad (and you) - Use LILO!
March 28th, 2005 at 1:49 pm
Fedora has GRUB by default, so I used that. As far as I remember, there is no option for LILO in FC3, only GRUB.
I think I installed FC2, so I still have that option. The point is that either I have to travel quite a distance to the lab to go and install LILO since I don’t think I want my Dad to be setting up Lilo because he obviously wouldn’t know how to configure it. For that matter, even I don’t know how to tinker with Lilo but at least, I can my way around.
March 28th, 2005 at 1:50 pm
Why not get Virtual PC on his machine and then install Linux so that there is no dual booting in the first place. [Then you can install Linux in Virtual PC and let him try your software] You know, he would get bad impression of Linux if he would not be able to accomplish his task. I am sure you don’t want that to happen.
JD
March 28th, 2005 at 6:35 pm
JD, what’s Virtual PC?
Anyway, that is like solving the wrong problem. I don’t think he will have more problems, though.
March 28th, 2005 at 7:21 pm
hey
I think you messed up here for a change… GRUB not booting Windoze does not in any way indicate how well Linux Desktop runs… GRUB is just a multi loader.
Even XOSL /NTLDR installed thru Windoze can have problems.. this doesnt translate into the fact that Win is != ready for desktop???
And yeah all systems have problems. Even there are Win Problems similarly you may call this a Lin Problem… Both require technical support… so I dont think it indicates that Lin/Win is != ready for dextop.
Ankit
March 28th, 2005 at 7:25 pm
Ankit:
First of all, the spelling is Windows.
Second, is there anyway that I can boot into a Linux distribution without using GRUB or LILO? I don’t think so, hence I refer to it as part of the Linux distribution.
Third, and my main point is that such kind of problems were never faced when using Windows. There have been no problems in using Windows since the past 4 years.
Fourth, have you ever successfully convinced any non-student or non-technical person to use Linux? You will then realise what I mean by ‘not desktop-ready’.
Fifth, I use a Linux distribution as my primary workstation at office. I have seen its limitations as well as its strengths.
March 28th, 2005 at 7:31 pm
The same argument cannot be applied to Windows. If you try to install windows over a box which runs Linux, windows would kill the boot loader without ‘mercy’.
March 28th, 2005 at 7:33 pm
Sridhar, You have misunderstood what I said. I had already installed FC2 and both Linux and Windows were working fine. Suddenly, one day, GRUB stopped working. That is what I have written about.
March 28th, 2005 at 8:29 pm
Are you the same Ankit who writes short articles in Linux For You? If you are, well good work… Rahul Chopra is very impressed by you
And sorry for posting it here Swaroop !
-Anand
March 28th, 2005 at 8:33 pm
Configuring LILO is quite a lot easier than configuring GRUB. As for installing LILO, grab the latest source code, make and install. Do a ‘man lilo.conf’, write your /etc/lilo.conf, run the lilo program, reboot, sit back and relax. For unloading LILO do ‘lilo -U’.
March 28th, 2005 at 10:11 pm
Anand: Yes, it is the same 10th standard kid Ankit :), take a look at http://www.scribbler.tk - his website.
Regarding Lilo, sorry, but I don’t want to spend time compiling stuff myself (why do you think I gave the suggestion for Uraga?
), I’ll find an RPM or find another alternative.
March 29th, 2005 at 1:27 am
Virtual PC is on Windows what is WINE on Linux (actually it’s much more than that). It’s a piece of software which will allow you to create a Virtual Machine (with it’s own virtual RAM/CPU/HDD) where you can install ANY OS you would like. That means you can install Virtual PC, create different virtual machines running Win 95, 98, 2000, Red Hat Linux, Mandrake Linux, SuSE linux.. any OS which runs on Intel Processors.
JD
March 29th, 2005 at 4:23 pm
“First of all, the spelling is Windows.”
Oh yeah that is intentional!
“Second, is there anyway that I can boot into a Linux distribution without using GRUB or LILO? I don’t think so, hence I refer to it as part of the Linux distribution.”
Is there any way I can boot into Windoze [again!] w/o using NTLDR ? I don’t think so… hence I ref…
“Third, and my main point is that such kind of problems were never faced when using Windows. There have been no problems in using Windows since the past 4 years.”
Third and my main point is …. when using Linux! There have been problems with me similar to your problem while using Windoze [aga...in!]
“Fourth, have you ever successfully convinced any non-student or non-technical person to use Linux? You will then realise what I mean by ‘not desktop-ready’.”
oh yeah ! I have ! my sister, defi a non technical person, is using KDE + Ubuntu comfortably! The only thing she is missing is printing tasks [ I have a WinPrinter :-(] and of course handling an anti-virus and anti-spam tools!
“Fifth, I use a Linux distribution as my primary workstation at office. I have seen its limitations as well as its strengths.”
Yeah Good
Basically we are flogging a dead horse!
I have seen many problems with Windoze and rarely with Linux so I find Linux ready for desktop and not Win… For you, it is vice versa!
So lets stop the discussion here
March 29th, 2005 at 4:26 pm
“Are you the same Ankit who writes short articles in Linux For You?”
yes.. though I dont intentionally make them short!
Coming soon… a longish article /review 
“If you are, well good work… Rahul Chopra is very impressed by you :-)”
Huh? Is he :D! Do you work @ LFY ?
“And sorry for posting it here Swaroop !”
sorry for posting a reply here too swaroop!
“-Anand” -Ankit
March 29th, 2005 at 4:29 pm
Anand: Yes, it is the same 10th standard kid Ankit :), take a look at http://www.scribbler.tk - his website.
ARRGGHHHHHHHH! I hate that word ‘kid’! And now I am in 11th standard although Boards results are far away but I will probably pass them !
Anywayz is that ‘Anand’ > ‘Anand Babu?’
March 30th, 2005 at 12:17 am
Ankit: Sorry, no offense meant by the word ‘kid’ :-). I meant ‘kid’ as in the ‘new cool kid in the block’, not that you are kiddish
March 30th, 2005 at 7:11 pm
“Ankit: Sorry, no offense meant by the word ‘kid’ :-). I meant ‘kid’ as in the ‘new cool kid in the block’, not that you are kiddish ;)”
Yeah EVEN I was just kiddin’! . Btw is it ‘on the block’ or ‘in the block’?
And yeah who is this ‘Anand’????
March 31st, 2005 at 7:17 pm
Ankit - I know that Windoze sucks but I never knew that Windoze caused spam too. Guess if I switch to Linux, I can ditch all these anti-spam software. Stupid Micro$oft !
Sorry Swaroop
April 1st, 2005 at 12:33 pm
oh i am really sorry I mentioned that ‘anti spam ‘ thing! my mistake…!
but you cant deny outlook helps spread spam when attacked by a virus…
btw i am wondering why your email went into my spam folder…has your outlook a/c got to do something with this?